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Under the title Whiteness and the Jewish Question Prozium writes:

Jews are a Semitic ethnic group like the Syrians or the Palestinians. “Ethnicity” is also a muddle of kinship and cultural factors. Jews have defined themselves as a distinct people for thousands of years. Until very recently, European Christians treated Jews as an alien element within their societies. Jews remain to this day painfully aware of their history and distinctiveness and do not identify with the American majority like other groups.

The debate over the “whiteness” of the Jews is unique to America. With few exceptions, Europeans have never cared much about “whiteness” because they have traditionally lived in racially homogeneous societies. Even in America, “whiteness” has never been synonymous with Caucasian. “White” was originally a synonym of “English” and was later refined into “Nordic” by the early twentieth century. The Italians were finally accepted as “white,” but are still thought of (accurately, in my view) as being less “white” than Scandinavians. The whiteness of Levantines like the Jews is even more suspect.

Most racialists find the “whiteness” debate interesting but consider it less important than other questions. Even if the Jews were “white” by some genetic proxy, it would not absolve them of the unique role they have played in undermining white racial consciousness in the United States. The fact remains that the organized Jewish community has treated white racialists as “the enemy” ever since the end of the Second World War.

They are the ones who started to antagonize us, not the other way around. Up until the 1960s, American racialism wasn’t associated with anti-Semitism. This changed in the wake of the Civil Rights Movement when it became clear that Jews had played a vanguard role in pushing the racial and cultural changes in America that we dislike. Their actions are what generate “anti-Semitism” and sympathy for the Third Reich.

It is completely rational to exclude a hostile, antagonistic minority from your living space. One can easily imagine an alternative timeline in which Jews showed respect for the customs and traditions of their host and presented themselves as defenders and admirers of Western civilization. I doubt there would be any resentment against Jews if their behavior was of this sort. No one spends their time fretting over the “Mongolian Question.”

In reality, Jewish behavior confirms many of worst stereotypes about their race. They are avaricious, inconsiderate, duplicitous, condescending, materialistic, and aggressive. They cry foul when they endure the slightest criticism, even when they are in the process of destroying others like in their recent attack on Lebanon, or egging on Bush/Cheney to attack Iraq, Syria, and Iran.

Not all Jews are of this sort. The Jewish community is divided on all sorts of issues. Aside from the neocons, American Jews are more concerned with domestic policy than foreign policy. Jewish wealth and the disproportionate representation of Jewish voices in academia, government, business, and the news and entertainment media has created a pro-Jewish bias in American culture and public policy that would otherwise not exist. This has come at the expense of other groups like the Palestinians and racially conscious white Americans whom Jews count amongst their ethnic enemies.

It doesn’t suit us as Whites for Jews to continue to enjoy privileges like their immunity from criticism or their vast fortunes. This is the gist of the Jewish Question.

To which I responded:

The US has the Latino Question, and Europe has the Muslim Question. Both are really the Immigration Invasion Question, which is: whose interests are served by permitting millions of impoverished, uneducated, hostile aliens to flood any nation? These questions trace back and are in fact subordinate to the Jewish Question. Which is how I became aware of it.

The question “are jews White” is exactly what you need to consider to understand why there is a JQ to begin with, and to contemplate answers. That these questions are taboo, while the anti-racist questioning of Whiteness is not, reveals at least two prongs of anti-White aggression. So I cannot agree that there are more important questions to consider.

Excellent analysis otherwise.

The question “are jews White” was new to me and still fresh in mind when I wrote Committing PC’s Most Mortal Sin. I was exposed to it by an article written by E. Michael Jones called Francis’s Legacy:

The last time I saw Sam Francis, it was at a meeting in Washington. Sam was the moderator at a talk given by John Tyndall, a leader of the National Front in England. Mr. Tyndall was trying to get us enthused about being white guys, and so he launched into a peroration about the glories of Elizabethan England. Since Elizabethan England was the place where Catholic priests, like Edmund Campion, SJ, could be hanged until not quite dead, drawn and quartered and have their entrails thrown into boiling oil for the crime of saying the Mass, I was less than enthralled by the picture Mr. Tyndall had painted for us. In fact, if his intention was to bring us all together, his talk had the exact opposite effect. Since both Father Campion and Lord Burghley and his henchman Walsingham were all white, just what meaning did this fact possess?

My friend Gerry Bruen must have been entertaining the same thoughts because after Mr. Tyndall finished his speech, Gerry asked him whether “the Irish are white.” The question annoyed Mr. Tyndall, who got a disgusted look on his face and said, “Of course, the Irish are white. My mother is Irish.”

At this point, Sam Francis broke into the discussion, and turning to Mr. Tyndall, he asked, “Are Jews white?” Mr. Tyndall was taken aback by the question. After a long pause, he turned to Sam and said, “I’ll have to get back to you on that one.” So today I’d like to honor the memory of Sam Francis by trying to answer his unanswered question: “Are Jews White?

Jones believes that the root of America’s cultural divide is not race, but religion. Besides Sam Francis the story intertwines Catholics, Leo Pfeffer and the Neoconservatives, Kevin MacDonald, the NAACP, Mearsheimer & Walt, and the SPLC. Jones ends with an appeal to spirituality and Logos I find moving but unconvincing:

In the end, when Father Scalia entered his hospital room and asked him if he wanted the sacraments of the Church, Sam Francis chose the Higher Logos, and we can honor him by choosing the cause of Logos as we enter the next phase of the culture wars. Both Sam Francis’s deathbed conversion to Catholicism and the persecution of John Sharpe are symbolic of a shift in the culture wars. The offensive launched by the Southern Poverty Law Center is the best indication I can offer that the main front in the culture wars is now the confrontation between Jews and Catholics. The Enlightenment is finally dead. There are no more quasi-Masonic movements, where each of us can rise above whatever sect he belongs to and join the Lodge known as “conservatism” or liberalism, or whatever. I think we, no matter what our religious or ethnic background, should rejoice at this development because in this confrontation 1) the Church has both a history and a set of beliefs that will lay to rest forever the charge of anti-Semitism and destroy it as a tool of political oppression and 2) because no matter how much they want to finesse the attack by focusing on what they consider fringe groups, the Jews have taken on a considerable group of people, who will react eventually to the attack. The situation in Hungary now is a case in point.

And finally, we should be happy because the attack clearly defines the terms of engagement, all of which are all spiritual. The revolutionary Jew is our enemy because he is a rejecter of Logos, not because of his DNA. We are not anti-Semites because we oppose the machinations of the revolutionary Jew. No, we are true Christians because of that, as the Church from the time of St. Peter onward has proclaimed. Like St. Peter and St. Paul, we are suffering at the hands of the Jews, “the people who put the Lord Jesus to death, and the prophets too. And now they have been persecuting us, and acting in a way that cannot please God and makes them the enemies of the whole human race” (I Thess 1:15).

We are now engaged in a battle which has ebbed and flowed over the centuries, but the sides in this battle have not changed. What has changed are the odds. The Jews have never been stronger; the Catholics have never been weaker, but the outcome of spiritual battles–and the battle for the soul of the West, as Tolkien knew, is a spiritual battle–no matter what the odds, is rarely predictable. If St. Paul, representing the Christian position, has to say, “When I am weak, I am strong.” Then the revolutionary Jew, representing the opposite position has to say, “When I am strong, I am weak.” We are outgunned on every front in the culture wars, but that is no reason for despair, if we follow the Logos that St. Paul followed, because he was outgunned by the Jews too, outgunned but not undone, saying, “We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down but not destroyed.”

The Catholic heirarchy and broader Christian leadership stand alongside the vast majority of jews in support of the immigration invasion and, by implication, the liquidation of Whites. So I disagree with Jones’ claim that the main confrontation is between Jews and Catholics. The confrontation I care about is between Whites and the people actively demoralizing, displacing, dispossessing, and disenfranchising them.

Jones is wrong about DNA. DNA is more important than anything else in determining low-level personality traits. Traits that ultimately express themselves in higher forms as ethics, morals, and culture. There is some feedback flowing the other direction, but the driving force is DNA. Some races, ie. genetic clusters, produce more morons, and some produce more geniuses. Likewise sociopaths who crave infinite wealth or totalitarian power and to best achieve these aims gravitate toward, foment, and revel in revolution.

The denial of such truths is akin to Lysenkoism, both in contradiction of biological reality and in the dependence on repressive political and social tactics. We call these tactics Hate Laws and Political Correctness, which suppress truth primarily by suppressing questions.

18 thoughts on “Questions Questions”

  1. How can Michael Jones possibly argue that the real fight in America is “between Catholics and Jews”. He is positing groups who are fundamentally foreign to the United States as the two main players in its politics! This is sort of like saying “The primary fight in France is between Sunni and Shia Muslims”….

    There were four principal ethnoreligious players in 20th-Century America’s sociocultural and political power struggles : White-Protestants, Catholics, Jews, and Blacks. These are broadly defined and the relative positions of all were very fluid, one often allied with another against the other two and all changed alliances often. The most common and enduring alliance: All three other groups willingly joined forces against the White-Protestants. White-Protestants [the true American population if you look at who founded and built the country], have been so browbeaten by the others that they are weakest of the group today, with a fraction of the relative power they enjoyed a century ago, when this was an unquestioned White Protestant Nation.

    Anyway, “Are Jews White”? .. Well, they are definitely not White-Protestant. Religion is important. Most European nationalists would never accept a blonde/blue-eyed Muslim, and neither should a sensible nationalist accept a Jew!

  2. Tanstaafl wrote:

    “DNA is more important than
    anything else in determining
    low-level personality traits.”

    Yes, yes, YES!

    I posted a link to the gay, vegetarian, athiestic White Nationalist ‘Stodles’ stuff on youtube before but I thought I’d do it again (because he’s worth a plug, arf arf).

    Race & IQ

    But this little video not included in the race & IQ section is one of his best IMO.

  3. The question of Whiteness is another red herring thrown to the enemies of the Parasite to bring the Hounds of Media Scorn to the hunt. It is true that Whites are terribly oppressed and attacked in the West, but the REAL ENEMY of the Parasite is in fact Civilization or Legal Order…
    The Parasite is not a friend of the Law and far prefers Discordia for the din of chaos hides the painful screams of the victims that the Parasite doth prey upon! The pitifully dispossessed widows and orphans and beggars that the Parasite begets with the Dirty Deals and Dishonest Schemes would quickly INFLAME the people to DESTROY the Vermin in their midst – if not for MANY DISTRACTIONS!
    Bread and Circuses, Guns and Butter, Shock and Awe, etc. The relentless drone of the Boob Tube with its’ Jerry Springers and Jolly Political Whores numbing the Minds of the populace to a dazed and confused stupor through the tried and true Information Overload of Titillating Vacuousness.
    True, the importance of Genotype in the future of the World cannot be Overestimated, but do not make the Mistake of fighting the Last War like an Armchair General! Hitler tried to UNITE the Whites against the Internationale and if He failed with all his Oratory Skills, then I doubt any other would be able to Politically Energize the same Whites with mere Racialist Rhetoric.
    The Problem of the White Race is NOT that it is TOO RACIST. You MUST KNOW THAT by now – or you do not live in the same World as I do…
    Using Race with Whites is not effective, but not because you know who has brainwashed them! Do you BELIEVE the claims of Genius that the Unspeakable say about the Unmentionable? The MEDIA has lied to you, and still some have not shaken off the operant conditions?
    Whites have had Power for SO LONG that they still fight amongst themselves while an enemy – NO Several Enemies plot their downfall! They have not awakened because they prefer to Sleep – perchance to dream another American Dream perhaps?
    Let the Sheep slumber as they are but NO USE except for WOOL to close the eyes! When the time comes for the Swords and Long Knives it will be Easier to Spot the Wolves in Sheep’s Clothing if the Sheep are Asleep – for the Wolves will not Sleep.

    The Old cannot become New. A New Order needs a New Leader. Hitler is Dead – Long Live Der New Fuhrer! Look, Seek, and Find !!!

    The Eye of Horus sees All.

  4. I would say that some European Jews must be at least partially White because there has been some amount of inter-marriage between Jews and Europeans, particularly in Germany from what I understand.

    Still, European Jews are clearly a distinct genetic group — Caucasian but not “White” — Middle Eastern I would say.

  5. That Jones article is pretty shockingly off-base. But this is what Catholic apologists usually come up with — finally saying that America has no identity: “We are a nation of nations, and that is all we have ever been.” What hogwash!

    Jones’ agenda is, of course, first and foremost to promote Catholicism and the ethnic interests of the Catholic ethnic groups that evidently are not fully Americanized to this day, proving that the Know-Nothings were right about the influence Catholic immigrants would have on this country. He blames the WASPs for selling out the country, when actually many more Catholics (along with Jews) have been involved.

    Also, I never heard that story about Sam Francis converting to Catholicism either. I wouldn’t trust it. Francis was in fact very critical of the excessive influence that Catholics had on American conservatism.

  6. My view of White doesn’t hinge entirely on skin-color or genetic purity. It’s more of a pragmatic definition, broader than Nordic and narrower than Caucasian. It recognizes common traits and interests stemming both from unconscious genetics and from conscious identity. It involves religion.

    Most important, if you don’t think of yourself as White then by my definition you aren’t White, no matter what color you skin is. Jews who insist that they are first and foremost jews are in my opinion not White. They have the interests of a separate group in both their genes and their minds.

    Whites, like latinos and blacks, are tremendously diverse, genetically and culturally. What Whites lack is a similar consciousness of common cause. It is literally unhealthy for us to be race blind because we are being warred on by other groups that, while they may also squabble about their ethnic differences, do not allow these petty rivalries to distract them from treating Whites as sheep to be exploited, or worse, enemies to be exterminated.

    Someday soon I’ll finish thinking through and writing down these thoughts. Along the way I’ve encountered many fascinating questions. The challenges and comments from readers have helped me immensely. Thanks all.

  7. The Ashkenazi Race is obviously Not European. It MIGRATED to Europe near the beginning of the Dark Ages in which disastrous social policy and government mismanagement Destroyed All Vestiges of the Roman Civilization which led to the Overrunning of Europe by Barbarians from Asia and The Middle East…

    Ashkenazi Origins are shrouded in Secrecy and nearly NO RECORDS of their ancestry seem to have survived the Destruction of the Great Alexandrian Library or the Purge of Ancient Works by the Papacy during the “revival” of the Catholic Church during the Inquisition and the ill-fated Crusades. The Crusades of course were poorly-administered and widely-condemned Invasions of the Middle East by unpopular Popes to renew the “Faith” and “Liberate” the former Roman Province of Palestine – today called Israel.

    The Reason for these Crusades is widely-disputed today with the Western Media portraying the debacle as a Righteous Counter to pressures by Islamic Expansion into Europe – while Muslims say they were merely Bald-Faced attempts at colonizing the Middle East by Greedy Popes and Mercantile Interests to capture Palestine which was the Main Port between Europe and the Silk Road to China’s Westernmost Market.

    The Ashkenazi themselves believe their origins to be in the steppes of Asia near the Former Nation of Armenia which was destroyed by the Ottomans that claimed it was an Evil Empire rife with corruption that was fomenting Revolution with designs on the Ottoman Empire. With the destruction of Armenia which fell hardest on the Orthodox Christians, these people were forced to abandon Armenia and settle in Eastern Europe.

    So No, the Ashkenazi were not Really European and as for the claim they are White – Europeans have never traditionally referred to themselves this way. The Europeans are a breed descended from the Ancient Aryans in Nordic Europe and the near extinct Mediterranean Race of Etruscans and Ancient Greeks. There are sub-races amongst True Europeans such as the Picts from Scotland and the Celts that are now almost all referred to as Irish, but the Great Empires are almost ALL due to the Aryan and Mediterranean breeds…

    Eastern Europe has a Large Genetic Heritage from Asiatic Barbarians which invaded Europe after the Downfall of the Roman Empire and the Horrendous Anarchy of Mismanagement during the Dark Ages. Caucasian is a misnomer for True Europeans however, because it obviously comes from the name of the Caucasus Mountains in Asia which is found near the area of the former Armenia – curiously? White is also a strange term for Europeans who are ACTUALLY more of a Peach or Olive Hue – although coincidentally very light-skinned pale white people DO EXIST in Parts of Eastern Europe and Russia near the steppes…

    Hmmm?

    The Eye of Horus sees All.

  8. Tanstaafl, your last comment was extremely well made. These are the types of arguments we need to arm ourselves with. I look forward to your future thoughts.

  9. I think Michael Jones main point has some merit. In the 20th Century the WASPs were sort of the umpires of more vigorous Jewish and Catholic groups vying for cultural control of America through things like organized labor, Hollywood, Legion of Decency, and the like.

    I’ve always thought of white as a shorthand for European and Christian. I think our European heritage and our common Christian religion are what have defined our various peoples from the time of Constantine up to, say, the mid-20the Century. The level of particularity we describe “us” varies with the situation and enemy. Against Bolshevism, it’s Europe. Against Lincolnism, it’s Southerners. Against Islam, it’s Christians. Against Germany, it’s France or Poland. Greater and lesser degrees of generality of “us” and our identity depend on circumstances. In America, it became “white” verus black, particularly in the South. In ethnic New York, religion and country of origin played a bigger part.

    It seems to me the most coherent and viable identity that exists in a real way and is a means of resisting globalization, homogenization, and all the other evils of today is the nation. I am an American. I am a white, Christian American, and American has meant, at least until mid-Century, white and Christian since time immemorial. Other can be Americans too, but they must respect the White Christian European majority. If they do that–and folks like Booker T. Washington and Irving Berling did–then we can all get along, with a solid massive majority and a minority that is well behaved and loyal. I don’t think we should have ever had blacks in this country. I don’t think we should have let in Jews. I don’t think we should have let in large numbers of Russians, Greeks, Italians, and all the rest. If we did none of those things, we’d be the most orderly and powerful nation on Earth with much less guilt. But such is life and history. We live here now and have to find some mode of peaceful cohabitation or, as is appropriate, expulsion.

    I think we cannot revive ridiculous Pagan superstitions and I also think that without the Christian religion we devolve into monsters. There is a needed balance in all things. We must be coherent and defend ourselves and way of life, but we need not resort to pagan artifices like genocide and mass murder. It’s not for nothing that Jews were under control before the modern era but, apart from some illiterate Slavic pograms, were not mass murdered until recently. The modern age yields the worst of both worlds: excessive unregulated power to minorities and excessive and unjust responses by majorities.

    So I think we’re white. I think Jews are not white in my ordinary usage, but may seem themselves as such in special circumstances: black southern slaveocracy, being in prison, etc. For the most part there are distinct Christian and Jewish intersts, identities, and the like. Jews are 70% Democratic, but every other white group, especially married with kids, is 65% Republican. That’s very telling.

    Like TANTSAFL I think not all Jews are bad, and not all bad things come from Jews (indeed, mostly they seem to take French and English Englightenment balls and put them in lights), but the historical record cannot be ignored nor the trajectory and nor the fact that something must be done, starting with recognizing the problem.

  10. “I am a white, Christian American, and American has meant, at least until mid-Century, white and Christian since time immemorial. Other can be Americans too, but they must respect the White Christian European majority.”
    …
    “I don’t think we should have ever had blacks in this country. I don’t think we should have let in Jews.”

    Make up your mind, either the foreigners should be here or they should not. Your cognitive dissonance illustrates the same problem most Whites have. They want to let in non-Whites into a White nation, in order to be nice and compassionate (instead of good and righteous to their families and nation) but still believe that the foreigners will not change their nation. It’s crazy, it’s stupid, it’s suicidal. This is the nonsense double-standard that Jews like Larry Auster promote. They want the special priviledges of being a super-protected and powerful minority, but also want to be seen as part of the White majority when they want to hide their misdeeds.

    Why can’t Jews, blacks, and browns leave us Whites alone? Why aren’t Whties allowed to have our own country, our own nation, our own government? We are a people, too, we have a real heritage and a real history that goes back several thousand years at least. Go build your own civilization, you commie dogs, you hate us Whites and our civilization so much.

    — Iva Haddit

  11. They want the special priviledges of being a super-protected and powerful minority, but also want to be seen as part of the White majority when they want to hide their misdeeds.

    I would add to this (correct) observation that some wish to keep a sleeping, easily intimidated, non-racially-aware White majority so that they might continue to feed with impunity off of our works, efforts, indeed the blood of the civilizations that WE created, and not face the prospect of living in a Johannesburg where non-Whites who are racially aware will tear them a new a-hole.

    A question for jews in America (NOTE: I will capitalize jew when they cease calling us goyim and start capitalizing gentile): where will you move to when you destroy *yet* another country (this one)? Back to Israel? Without (deluded) White America, Israel is a crater. It is possible that the White Race is doomed to extinction; as the ebola virus will die out when it slays its final host, so too will our parasites disappear with our demise.

  12. Why do I say what I say? Because the historical America, though majority white, is not exclusively white. I think black slavery was an incredibly greedy and stupid and unsustainable idea. But it happened. These people live alongside us now. Once they were kept, more or less, under control. No longer. So the historical America was majority White and minority Black and, though imperfect on account of being biracial, was still sustainable and powerful and civilized. No longer.

    There might be some Platonic America that is all English and Nordic and happy and perfect, but it does not exist and it never existed. Then by degrees we get to the historical America, where white values and white leaders set the civilizational tone for the various minorities.

    The Sixties have meant the minorities are in the driver’s seat and the whites feel too guilty to lift a finger. This is obviously bad, but there is more than a binary choice between genocide/mass expulsion and civilizational destruction. We could rally around the traditional historical America where folks like Michael Eisner, Steven Spielberg, and Al Sharpton would all be marginalized.

  13. “Most important, if you don’t think of yourself as White then by my definition you aren’t White, no matter what color you skin is.”

    So can a non-white who thinks himself white be white? (ie, non-spanish speaking latino)

    The real question I came away with is the concept of whiteness. By (your) definition, any person who places greater bearing on a characteristic (ie, catholic, italian, german, gay, female, american, left-handed) with greater sentiment and value than his “whiteness” would be in effect non-white. This includes an entire classification of christian (or its subsects) who value their (aracial) christian community with little to no consideration for the pigmentation of their skin.

    MST – “If we did none of those things, we’d be the most orderly and powerful nation on Earth with much less guilt.”

    How about Einstein, et al?

    Historical America – would that be southern elitist (English-Protestant Virginians, non-EPV’s, women & children, slaves in that order) or northern bigot (every new immigrant is bad, but if you stick around long enough we will deal with you … eventually).

    “They want the special priviledges …” – there is your problem, there is your enemy. The problem wasnt giving suffrage to blacks and women or investigating and prosecuting equal rights abuses – it was the special priveleges minorities invoked and the “acceptance” by the ruling majority.

    Oh, before I forget – CLOSE THE BORDERS!

  14. Like TANTSAFL I think not all Jews are bad, and not all bad things come from Jews (indeed, mostly they seem to take French and English Englightenment balls and put them in lights)….

    But the Enlightenment came out of Holland and its Jewish community. Check out Sutcliffe’s “Judaism and Enlightenment”.

  15. near the beginning of the Dark Ages in which disastrous social policy and government mismanagement Destroyed All Vestiges of the Roman Civilization which led to the Overrunning of Europe by Barbarians from Asia and The Middle East….

    The Middle Ages saw the replacement of Roman “positive” law with German natural law, and the replacement of atomism (or statism) with community. Undoubtedly it is idealized, but Paul Johnson’s description from his “History of Christianity” gives the flavor:

    One of the great tragedies of human history – and the central tragedy of Christianity – is the break-up of the harmonious world-order which had evolved, in the Dark Ages, on a Christian basis. Men had agreed, or at least had appeared to agreee, on an all-enveloping theory of society which not only aligned virtue with law and practice, but allotted to everyone in it precise, Christian-oriented tasks. There need be no arguments or divisions because everyone endorsed the principles on which the system was run. They had to. Membership of the society, and the acceptance of its rules, was ensured by baptism, which was compulsory and irrevocable. The unbaptized, that is the Jews, were not members of the society at all; their lives were spared but otherwise they had no rights. Those who, in effect, renounced their baptism by infidelity or heresy, were killed. For the remainder, there was total agreement and total commitment. The points on which men argued were slender,
    compared to the huge areas of complete acquiescence which
    embraced almost every aspect of their lives.

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